Women’s History Month Interview: BC Federation of Labour President Sussanne Skidmore
October 4, 2024
Amid a busy provincial election campaign period, BC Federation of Labour (BCFED) President Sussanne Skidmore made time for an interview with FSA Member Engagement Officer Matt Greaves. Conducted over Microsoft Teams on Monday, September 23, 2024, the interview below has been edited for length and content.
Matt Greaves: Sussanne Skidmore, thank you for speaking with me today in anticipation of Women’s History Month in October. I’m coming to you from the unceded territory of the shíshálh nation. Welcome!
Sussanne Skidmore: Thanks for having me! I’m here at the BC Federation of Labour Office, which is on the unceded and traditional territories of the Musqueam (xʷməθkwəy̓əm), Squamish (Skwxwú7mesh), and (sleil-Waututh (səlilwətaɬ) Nations and I live in Katzie (q̓ic̓əy̓) First Nation territory as well. So, I like to honor the land where I live and here at the BC Federation of Labour. Thanks for having me.
MG: My pleasure.
You’re the first openly queer woman to lead the BCFED and only the second woman President in the Fed’s almost 70-year history. Do you think of this as a challenge for you? Does it shape how you lead the Fed?
SS: I look at it more as an opportunity. Regardless of what titles women have held, there have been women in the Canadian labour movement since unions became a thing in this country. They’ve played prominent roles in their unions and in their communities, and I look to those women as inspiration.
I am honored to be able to walk the path I’m on because so many amazing, courageous people in the labour movement took up some space. Irene Lanzinger, first woman president of the BC Federation of Labour, and then me being out and queer and talking about that: these things matter because I think representation really matters. Whether we’re talking about women or queer folks in leadership, it’s important that people see themselves in these positions and that we also talk about it,
I’m honored to have the confidence of the affiliates, to be here, and to be able to do this work. And I just look at our history as an opportunity to continue to grow and evolve and be better and do better.
MG: Most of the people who taught me trade unionism were women, even if they haven’t necessarily been reflected at the top.
SS: The same for me. Whether it was folks who are at the same level that I was in the movement that were supportive and encouraging or folks who pumped up my tires and helped me get to where I am and continue to support me, there were a lot of women along that journey.
Regardless of what titles women have held, there have been women in the Canadian labour movement since unions became a thing in this country. They’ve played prominent roles in their unions and in their communities, and I look to those women as inspiration.
MG: A lot of the BCFED’s work under your leadership has focused on bringing precarious or vulnerable workers into the union movement, and I wonder if you can talk a little bit more about some of the challenges associated with this approach or strategy.
SS: The Fed has always been a champion for all workers in British Columbia—as long as I’ve been around and paying attention. But the changing nature of work is creating challenges. The Employment Standards Code was written in a time when jobs were very different than they are now. A globalized economy, as well, creates some pretty big challenges for labour in general, not just the union movement.
The folks who need unions the most are the most precarious in their jobs. And how do we make sure that we are representing those folks? We make sure they can join unions, right? That’s critical. In BC, we’re talking about, like, gig workers and app-based workers. We’re pushing to make sure that, at the very least, those folks can join a union and negotiate a contract. It’s challenging, but you know we’ve made some headway. There’s still more to do.
We’ve had tons of conversations with government and elected folks about the nature of work. Whether it’s taxi drivers or healthcare workers. There have always been folks who are moving around the province in their own vehicle—doing things for other people in the form of work. So, some of it is just this new app-based model, not the work itself. And not being able to define the workplace, whether it’s your car, your bicycle, your scooter or whatever, but at the end of the day, the employer is still the employer. You’re beholden to whoever is in control of that app. They can discipline you and they get to determine how they pay you and whether you get to see your tips and what the job is like.
That person’s in control, which means that’s your employer. We’re sort of trying to catch up [with app-based work], which has been challenging.
MG : A bit over half of public-sector workers in BC identify as women, but they earn about $0.94 on the dollar to their male public-sector counterparts. This is better than the province as a whole, which is about $0.86 on the dollar. Can you talk a bit about your vision for equality or equity in the public service?
SS: I’m a public sector worker myself, and we have fairly decent pay rules that guide us, but from the BC Federation of Labour perspective, one of the things we’ve been pushing hard for is pay equity. We’ve got pay transparency here in British Columbia, which is a good first step. Now it’s about trying to move us into pay equity and holding employers accountable—making sure that they’re doing the things that go along with having pay equity legislation in the province. That’s going to lift up women, trans, and nonbinary folks in this province.
We know that employers aren’t going to adhere to pay equity principles on their own, or else we’d already enjoy it. We’re talking about making sure that about half of the population in our province are paid fairly and paid equitably. We believe government has a role to play in this. And we keep pushing them to move us along, you know, past pay transparency. And of course, this will play out in the public sector. In fact, it’ll probably start with the public sector, then have implications for so many other workers around this province, and I think we’ll start seeing some big differences when we see pay equity in play.
MG: So much of the history of labour is the history of employers finding ways to play workers off one another, in gendered and racialized ways, for example. So having that kind of equity could also have really positive implications for worker solidarity.
SS: Whether we’re talking about a collective agreement or pay equity legislation, it doesn’t need to be adversarial. Collective Agreements are a playbook jointly negotiated by the employer and the employees. At the end of the day, everybody gave a little somewhere to get what you have on paper and everyone signed it.
I kind of look at pay equity in the same way, it just lays out for folks what the rules are around how we pay people.
That’s going to lift up women, trans, and nonbinary folks in this province.
MG: You chair the BC Centre for the Women in the Trades Governance Committee. How has that experience shaped your work in the trade union movement?
SS: The BC Centre for Women in the Trades is an incredible organization. My partner Lisa was actually one of the leaders who started this in the beginning. So, it’s kind of made a funny full circle back to me being Chair of the Governance Committee. But I have to say, I am a relatively quiet Chair. We share the role of actually chairing the meeting with the Trades who sit on it.
Having said that, the relationships and the stories I’ve heard along the way from the tradeswomen… it’s still a fight. We’re still fighting for space and PPE, like protective gear at work sites. That’s one of the biggest things which is still mind boggling. Accessible bathrooms… the list goes on. The stories of adversity from those women, it fuels my fire to do the work that I do. It is a good reminder that every day as the President of the Federation of Labour, I want to try and make life better for workers like those women. They’re so passionate about what they do, and I want to make sure that they continue to feel supported by the Fed.
MG: Do you think that those folks in the trades face more of an uphill battle than workers in the public sector—in terms of equity, in terms of trying to get toward, I mean not even pay equity, but just feeling treated equitably at work?
SS: I mean, there’s lots of issues for workers in the trades, for sure. There’s been a shift, but the numbers are still incredibly low. You know, we average somewhere between 4 – 15 percent of women in the trade, depending on what it is. There are some amazing programs out there for, you know, young folks in general, but young women in particular, to get their hands on the tools in high school and get those experiences that lead to great jobs. They’re good paying, often union jobs.
Recruiting people into taking the training isn’t necessarily a problem. It’s about workspaces being safe places to work. The world is still, unfortunately, full of misogyny and patriarchy and workplaces can reflect that. There’s cool work that’s been done over the years. Be More Than A Bystander training or shifting into, like, safe workplaces—there really is some good work happening, but it takes time.
MG: You’ve talked in the past about creating a culture of respect and unity in the union movement, even in times of member conflict. What are some of the strategies you’ve used in the past to achieve this kind of solidarity?
SS: We are a big, giant family. We have unions in every sector—literally, there are workers who are unionized in every single sector of the British Columbia economy and every region of the province. I learned under Laird [Cronk], the past BCFED President, that the family is not going to agree on everything but the majority of things we actually do agree on. Our values are similar or the same and the things that we can agree on, those are the things that we need to put a circle around and move forward.
I try to embody that every single day, whether we’re talking in house amongst ourselves or, you know, we’re talking with community or partners or whatever. What are those things we agree on and is there stuff we can move forward? Even when we disagree, at the end of the day, helping working people to have better lives is what fuels us, right? It’s what we do every single day in the union movement. And so, if we stay focused on that goal, that’s where we see unity and eventually change—acknowledging that we’re not going to agree on everything, and that’s OK too.
MG: Do you like to lead by consensus?
SS: The BCFED is a democratic organization that, if we find ourselves in a position where we need to take a vote on something that may be controversial, we do that and we allow democracy to happen because it’s something we pride ourselves in—being a democratic organization.
But we really do move forward through our relationships—our long standing commitments to one another. We do try and move things through on a consensus model, yeah.
MG: Now that you’ve been in the President role for almost two years, has your vision for the BC labour movement changed at all?
SS: That’s such a good question. We’re going into convention at the end of November, and I’m so excited that Hermender Singh Kailley and I are running again as a team.
We’re both very focused on electing a worker friendly government and that we are doing everything to make sure that all the workers in British Columbia’s lives are better. The vision that we have for the Federation of Labour continues to evolve. We both have big dreams about making sure that organizing is done well in this province and that all the workers who want to join a union can join a union.
You know the labor movement is held in some regard and respected. And I want to keep that. I want to continue to be relevant to working people out there. So, you know, staying focused on what the issues are for working people, whether it’s housing or cost-of-living issues, health care, education. The big-ticket issues for workers across BC, they’re the same for us. For labour it’s about continuing to try and move forward in a united way, because having a united labor movement in the province is how we make the most progress.
MG: If we have a less labour friendly government in a few months, does the script change?
SS: Yes and no. I mean, gosh, we all lived through it. In the early 2000s, I was a government worker who lost my job. Gordon Campbell fired me from my job over at the welfare office. But because I had a good collective agreement, I was able to land at the courthouse and still maintain being a union activist.
Having to fight every single day against a government who is hell bent on trying to dismantle unions in this province actually solidified us more.
It does come with its challenges for sure. It is really hard to negotiate with elected folks who won’t open their doors for you and who are not interested in having you at the table. But the Federation’s role has always been to find our way into those rooms and make sure that workers’ voices are heard.
MG: Given that we’re heading into Women’s History Month, what do you think is the biggest hurdle or difficulty working women still face in the workplace and in BC, or maybe even beyond, depending on how you want to take the question?
SS: There’s still a disproportionate share of the work in the home done by women. I’m queer. So, my family structure looks very different than maybe what the world used to look like.
When we look at like the role that women play in the workplace and also in the home and then you add issues around cost of living, accessibility, affordable childcare, health care… they’re facing big challenges. That’s not just BC. That’s everywhere across Canada. I talk to federation presidents fairly regularly across the country and folks are seeing this everywhere. And of course, it’s not just a gendered issue you know, but the weight still falls on women shoulders. We are starting to see a shift in that which is great, but especially coming out of the pandemic, we saw the real impacts—the extra weight that women are still carrying with them in the workplace and elsewhere.
Those are some big challenges that we are going to continue to face head on and not be afraid of. Like I always say: whether it’s wages or benefits or whatever, one of the best ways to get out of some of the challenging issues that women are facing in the world, particularly in the workplace, is to join a union.
That’s my commercial for the day. The best way out of, you know, impoverished jobs and crappy employers, is to join a union. Things will get better.
MG: Is there anything else you’d like our 1800 or so members at the BCITFSA to know about you? About the FED?
SS: We’re super happy that you’re part of our family! And happy Women’s History Month!
I’m honored to be able to have this talk, to share some of my thoughts with you, and our federation is better because you are part of it. And the work that you do every single day—making sure that you’re training and educating people, as they are either upgrading skills or joining the workforce—all of that is so critical. And I’m just so thankful for your work, just down the street from us here at the BCFED Office. So, thank you.
MG: Suzanne Skidmore, thank you so much for speaking with me today.
SS: Thanks for having me, Matt.
Sussanne Skidmore was elected BCFED president in 2022 after being elected as the federation’s secretary-treasurer in 2018 and 2020. A well-known human rights, social justice and queer rights activist, she served as executive vice-president of BCGEU for 5 years. She has co-chaired the BCFED’s Human Rights Committee and is active in the federation’s Women and Gender Rights Committee.